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Bamaman37
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Tider27
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 Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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Very interesting offense indeed, but will it work on the college level? Usually new variations with the spread option are offset by college speed. If I were a high school coach I would definitely research it for my team. It could be a special weapon of some sort.
Nice post 37, I'm gonna put that in my favorites and look into it more later. When it comes to offensive formations, new ones always catch my interest. 
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reger60
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bamanaf
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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They can keep that West Coast looking stuff, reminds me of my tag football league when I was in high school. I really think SEC defenses would have a field day with that after the first quarter.
GS
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Chuck-E-Cheeze
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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nice one Reger! I seriously thought it was another case of dejavu. Seriously!
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Bamaman37
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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Dude, you know I don't read anything chopper posts. 
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reger60
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Bamaman37 wrote: |
Dude, you know I don't read anything chopper posts. |
I only read it because I thought Porter posted it.
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bamaupsman
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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That takes WAAAAAY too long to develop. There's a reason no one runs the 'bone anymore. Like this one, it looks good on paper...
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LBS
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:25 am Post subject: |
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One of the issues that I see with this is that it would make obsolete the big guys. I don't see that happening. Football has always been a game of balance. There are times that is swings too far in one direction, but that is eventually countered.
Question, if the great minds of College football today thought that it would work, don't you think it would be in on the field already? I have a hard time believing that the coaches today we "out-created" by the inventor of the A-11.
My guess is that the A-11 was a survival effort by a coach who had three large guys and ton of little quick and darty squirrel-like guys. Its 7-on-7 with a token line.
Any team with a good rush will open the door for the DBs to jam. Take away the inside slant and you have outside lobs. The trouble that is that the outside lob works when it 1-on-1, but you have six guys to each side (WRs&DBs).
One would have to have the athletes in numbers to pull it off, but at the same time have a completely different system also so that the opponent had to double prep as well.
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alagator
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| LBS wrote: | | Question, if the great minds of College football today thought that it would work, don't you think it would be in on the field already? I have a hard time believing that the coaches today we "out-created" by the inventor of the A-11. |
My comments here are not directed at any potential success of this formation, but limited only to your actual question.
While I agree that many college coaches possess great minds about their game, college coaches are not necessarily the most creative or risk-taking. I would argue that the greatest collection of football minds probably exists in the NFL, and that league is almost devoid of innovative and outside-the-box thinking (watching the NFL play often gives the impression that every team in the league calls formations and plays from one universally approved playbook).
The 'Run-and-Shoot' offense has had the greatest influence on offensive football than anything else since Knute Rockne made the forward pass an any down weapon. Some college coaches installed the R&S in whole, others in part-and-parcel. The Spread and Spread Option offenses in vogue today are based almost entirely on R&S principals. And the Run-and-Shoot was created by a High School coach.
There is an old adage that 'from necessity comes innovation.' As you correctly guessed (per the article), the formation here was born out of a need for a coach to make his small squads competitive against larger and more talented units. Such a need for innovative thinking is much greater at the High School level than it is at major colleges.
At the college level, you more often see coaches at programs like Hawai'i, or Tulsa, or Washington State, or Texas Tech, or Northwestern think outside-the-box and adapt new thinking than you do coaches at programs like Alabama, Penn State, Michigan, USC, Nebraska. The reason is not the creative abilities of the coaches at the varied programs, but the ability to attract players with sufficient talent at sufficient numbers. That, and the risk of quickly losing your job if the implementation of something considered a 'gimmick' fails miserably.
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Bama1966
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| alagator wrote: | | LBS wrote: | | Question, if the great minds of College football today thought that it would work, don't you think it would be in on the field already? I have a hard time believing that the coaches today we "out-created" by the inventor of the A-11. |
My comments here are not directed at any potential success of this formation, but limited only to your actual question.
While I agree that many college coaches possess great minds about their game, college coaches are not necessarily the most creative or risk-taking. I would argue that the greatest collection of football minds probably exists in the NFL, and that league is almost devoid of innovative and outside-the-box thinking (watching the NFL play often gives the impression that every team in the league calls formations and plays from one universally approved playbook).
The 'Run-and-Shoot' offense has had the greatest influence on offensive football than anything else since Knute Rockne made the forward pass an any down weapon. Some college coaches installed the R&S in whole, others in part-and-parcel. The Spread and Spread Option offenses in vogue today are based almost entirely on R&S principals. And the Run-and-Shoot was created by a High School coach.
There is an old adage that 'from necessity comes innovation.' As you correctly guessed (per the article), the formation here was born out of a need for a coach to make his small squads competitive against larger and more talented units. Such a need for innovative thinking is much greater at the High School level than it is at major colleges.
At the college level, you more often see coaches at programs like Hawai'i, or Tulsa, or Washington State, or Texas Tech, or Northwestern think outside-the-box and adapt new thinking than you do coaches at programs like Alabama, Penn State, Michigan, USC, Nebraska. The reason is not the creative abilities of the coaches at the varied programs, but the ability to attract players with sufficient talent at sufficient numbers. That, and the risk of quickly losing your job if the implementation of something considered a 'gimmick' fails miserably. |
Good stuff alagator and LBS, I was going to say, college teams that don't get the cream of the crop recruits like, Toledo, Hawaii, Ball State, and so forth have the luxury of being innovative, but you put it in better words than I could. I would imagine Coach Saban would do it if he had to, but in the SEC you better have Talent, Speed, and Depth to be able to keep up, much less win.
A-11 would not work in the SEC IMHO, because of the size and speed of the Defenses. I would try different formations to disrupt it, like line 11 men on the line and pin their ears back. See how quick that would disrupt it.
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psychojoe
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| alagator wrote: | | LBS wrote: | | Question, if the great minds of College football today thought that it would work, don't you think it would be in on the field already? I have a hard time believing that the coaches today we "out-created" by the inventor of the A-11. |
While I agree that many college coaches possess great minds about their game, college coaches are not necessarily the most creative or risk-taking. I would argue that the greatest collection of football minds probably exists in the NFL, and that league is almost devoid of innovative and outside-the-box thinking (watching the NFL play often gives the impression that every team in the league calls formations and plays from one universally approved playbook).
The 'Run-and-Shoot' offense has had the greatest influence on offensive football than anything else since Knute Rockne made the forward pass an any down weapon. Some college coaches installed the R&S in whole, others in part-and-parcel. The Spread and Spread Option offenses in vogue today are based almost entirely on R&S principals. And the Run-and-Shoot was created by a High School coach.
At the college level, you more often see coaches at programs like Hawai'i, or Tulsa, or Washington State, or Texas Tech, or Northwestern think outside-the-box and adapt new thinking than you do coaches at programs like Alabama, Penn State, Michigan, USC, Nebraska. The reason is not the creative abilities of the coaches at the varied programs, but the ability to attract players with sufficient talent at sufficient numbers. That, and the risk of quickly losing your job if the implementation of something considered a 'gimmick' fails miserably. |
Case in point. Callahan tried to bring Nebraska into the 21st century with the West Coast offense. Needless to say when the wins didn't live up to Husker expectations he became history.
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runswithscissors
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:55 am Post subject: |
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when i saw that video it made me instantly think of arena league football.
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porkchop
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| reger60 wrote: | | Bamaman37 wrote: |
Dude, you know I don't read anything chopper posts. |
I only read it because I thought Porter posted it. |
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